I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.littlebeast13 wrote:an idealized notion of what society should be...
lb13
Movie time
- Ritterskoop
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Re: Movie time
If you fail to pilot your own ship, don't be surprised at what inappropriate port you find yourself docked. - Tom Robbins
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At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
- Ritterskoop
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Re: Movie time
Ha. This sounds like a conversation we had years ago on this board, when they started auditions for the show to get more players other than MAWGS in play.
The idea that we wanted to see people who looked like us on TV is the same in the movies.
The idea that we wanted to see people who looked like us on TV is the same in the movies.
If you fail to pilot your own ship, don't be surprised at what inappropriate port you find yourself docked. - Tom Robbins
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At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
- silverscreenselect
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Re: Movie time
Which half is Admiral Ackbar?Ritterskoop wrote:Wait, what? Women are half the population and they can't be half the crew?
In a film series in which creatures from dozens of different worlds are part of the crew, it's kind of silly to talk about the demographic makeup of the crew.
I think most of the criticism in this movie has to do with one character, Laura Dern's Admiral Holdo, who rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. And unfortunately, I can't really discuss her role without revealing some major spoilers.
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- littlebeast13
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Re: Movie time
Ritterskoop wrote:I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.littlebeast13 wrote:an idealized notion of what society should be...
lb13
And that could certainly be true! But changing horses so late in a series of movies is going to seem odd... just like when people complain about anything else in a long running series that seems out of place based on the older ones.
lb13
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- BackInTex
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Re: Movie time
Top bad guys: 3 white menRitterskoop wrote: I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.
Secondary bad guy: 1 white, but Hispanic, man
Summary: Bad guys, all white men
Top good guy leaders: 2 strong white women and one 1 old disenchanted white guy (required due to prior films, but I'm sure if they could go back in time and change Mark Hamill to a woman or minority they would)
Top good guy hero: 1 white woman
Secondary good guy heroes: 1 white man, 1 black man, 1 Asian woman (good but obvious diversity)
Summary: Good guys, mostly women (with the the top 3 of 4 being white)
It could be that way, I guess. I am surprised that Laura Dern's role was not cast with a minority.
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Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
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- silverscreenselect
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Re: Movie time
Finn (John Boyega), one of the heroes of the second trilogy, is a stormtrooper who defected. Since they all wear helmets, it's impossible to know what their racial or sexual background is. One of the few secondary villains with any lines, Captain Phasma, is played by Gwendolyn Christie, and it's revealed in the movie that she is definitely female.BackInTex wrote:Top bad guys: 3 white menRitterskoop wrote: I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.
Secondary bad guy: 1 white, but Hispanic, man
Summary: Bad guys, all white men
Top good guy leaders: 2 strong white women and one 1 old disenchanted white guy (required due to prior films, but I'm sure if they could go back in time and change Mark Hamill to a woman or minority they would)
Top good guy hero: 1 white woman
Secondary good guy heroes: 1 white man, 1 black man, 1 Asian woman (good but obvious diversity)
Summary: Good guys, mostly women (with the the top 3 of 4 being white)
It could be that way, I guess. I am surprised that Laura Dern's role was not cast with a minority.
The lead villain and Supreme Ruler is Snoke, who isn't human.
The entire point of the Star Wars universe is that the universe is indeed a melting pot of all species and races (remember Yoda). That's the entire purpose of scenes like the casino scene in this movie and the cantina scene in the original movie which helped establish the tone of the entire series.
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- Bob Juch
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Re: Movie time
They didn't change horses; the same people are in the same roles. It's called progress. It's not like making a WW2 film with women in command or combat roles.littlebeast13 wrote:Ritterskoop wrote:I guess I thought this is what fantasy would be for. To show us how it could be.littlebeast13 wrote:an idealized notion of what society should be...
lb13
And that could certainly be true! But changing horses so late in a series of movies is going to seem odd... just like when people complain about anything else in a long-running series that seems out of place based on the older ones.
lb13
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- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- jarnon
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Re: Movie time
The First Order stormtroopers aren't like the old Empire stormtroopers, who were all clones of Jango Fett, played by a Maori man.silverscreenselect wrote:Finn (John Boyega), one of the heroes of the second trilogy, is a stormtrooper who defected. Since they all wear helmets, it's impossible to know what their racial or sexual background is.
I liked the scene in The Force Awakens when Han Solo fends off Scottish and Indonesian gangs. Of course, in a galaxy far far away, there really aren't any Scots, Asians, Hispanics or Maori.
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- themanintheseersuckersuit
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Re: Movie time
Comparative Advantage: How does it work?littlebeast13 wrote:Ritterskoop wrote:Wait, what? Women are half the population and they can't be half the crew?
I think the crux of where we disagree on PC can be found here in this statement. You ask why can't the crew represent the general demographics? My answer would simply be that it most often doesn't in the real world, for a variety of reasons. There are very few job sectors where the demographics align very well with the overall population... and you can change "job sector" to all kinds of other different segments of society, and the disparity will still almost always be there. In the case of a movie... unless the rules of the story's world are different from those of society as we know it, then why shouldn't the film represent what actually is? I realize it's stupid to criticize a fantasy film for not being realistic, but unless there was some kind of feminist revolution that took place in the Star Wars universe between the settings of the original and sequel movies, then how could a change be seen as anything but pandering to an idealized notion of what society should be... and I think that, more than anything, is what I would define as political correctness... failing to recognize what is just because one thinks it is wrong or unjust to a demographic that has traditionally been considered to be disadvantaged (And I think it is possible to acknowledge that truth without having to accept that it right)...
The majority of my Walmart co-workers are female, while the overwhelming majority of salaried managers have been male. If someone took the time to get to know the general situations and needs of the men and women who work in retail, they would understand why that continues to be true... even in this time when there are so many career women. But most people on the outside just see that X does not equal Y and assume there must be something discriminatory happening. I think the gender PC may be the most irritating one simply because it is inarguable that men and women ARE different at the basic biological level. There will always be outliers and other anomalies, but from a general standpoint, we're still Venus and Mars...
lb13
Suitguy is not bitter.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.
feels he represents the many educated and rational onlookers who believe that the hysterical denouncement of lay scepticism is both unwarranted and counter-productive
The problem, then, is that such calls do not address an opposition audience so much as they signal virtue. They talk past those who need convincing. They ignore actual facts and counterargument. And they are irreparably smug.